CNN.com - Transcripts (2024)

[19:00:43]

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT now:

Georgia looking very good for Vice President Kamala Harris. She is hitting the trail in the state right now. New polling just breaking showing massive surge for Harris. Can Democrats win the battleground state?

And a Russia style oligarchy. A former Trump adviser says the former president wants to establish one here in the U.S., and then he'll use Project 2025 to do it. He'll be OUTFRONT.

And an OUTFRONT investigation tonight. Dozens of pro-Trump social media accounts are using stolen photos of social media influencers, female ones. Is that the work of state actors pushing Trump?

Let's go OUTFRONT.

And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.

OUTFRONT tonight, on the ground in Georgia, a massive gamble by Vice President Harris. A new polling released just moments ago show that that gamble may be paying off. A new poll coming out from Fox just moments ago shows that Harris is ahead in the state of Georgia, margin of error three points. Her lead is two.

So, right now, neck and neck, no clear leader. But you see, 50 to 48, and it comes as Kamala Harris and Tim Walz are wrapping up their bus tour today in the state. It is their first appearance together since the Democratic convention.

Here they are. You're looking at in Savannah appearing together in a restaurant moments ago, doing the hand-to-hand of campaigning there earlier, they stopped in the town of Hindsville, which is about 40 miles southwest of Savannah, where high school students performed for them.

(VIDEO CLIP PLAYS)

BURNETT: Harris told the students there that she was in a band when she was their age.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES & 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Sometimes you're going to hit the step right, sometimes you're not. And sometimes you're going to win the game. Sometimes you may not but you know, you'd never let any circ*mstance knock you down or slow you down. You just keep going at it.

That's who you are and that's why we are so confident in everything that you're doing and will continue to do for our country. So just keep being you and all of the excellence that you're bringing to everything you do, okay?

All right. See you --

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: All right. Harris doing that in Georgia going all in in Georgia is a big deal. It shows a competence and perhaps internal polling that was not what we were seeing publicly until he literally a few moments ago. Until a few minutes ago when that Fox poll crossed, the latest public polling had Trump well ahead of Harris in Georgia, 51 to 44 percent. That's a big gap politically.

And we wondered, maybe Harris had some internal numbers that showed something very different because every day and every hour count, this close to the actual election, and Harris is clearly making a play as if Georgia is neck and neck, and she's spending time not just in Democratic areas around Savannah, but in rural areas that voted heavily for Trump.

And here's how we can tell that this isn't just window dressing and one bus tour. Harris now has 24 field offices up and running and Georgia, by comparison, as of early last week, according to "The L.A. Times", Trump had about a dozen. Harris has opened offices in rural counties in deep red Georgia, where Trump has traditionally done incredibly well. In fact, one new Harris office is in the world town of Cordell, in a county that Trump won by 25 points in 2020.

Now the town of Cordell, though, itself, is nearly 70 percent black. Harris's campaign thinks she can run up the vote there. And the math works like this. Harris doesn't need to win that county. She probably not trying to win a county that she lost by 25 points. She just needs to narrow the margin and do a little bit better because we all remember when it came to the entire state of Georgia last time, that margin was incredibly tight, Biden won Georgia by 11,779 votes. We all know that number now, a mere 0.3 of a percentage point.

And as for Trump, by the way, he also is acting like maybe his internal polls show he has a Georgia problem, too. He's acting like that Fox poll breaking moments ago that shows Harris ahead is accurate, not the recent polling showing Trump comfortably in the lead. Why do we know that? Because Trump is doing something he hates to do. And rarely if ever actually does, which is eating crow. He is fawning over Georgia Governor Brian Kemp. Kemp is actually set

to attend a fundraiser for Trump in Georgia graciously supporting Trump, even though Trump's feelings about Kemp have been loud and clear.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT & 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He's a bad guy. He's a disloyal guy and he's a very average governor. Little Brian, little Brian Kemp.

Brian Kemp is truly a embarrassment to the Republican Party.

And this guy's a disaster. He's a disaster.

I'm ashamed that I endorsed him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: All of those public. So maybe those words to finally come home to roost because if tonight's Fox poll turns out to be right, that's the case. And here's the fact, Trump has to win Georgia to win the White House. And the Harris surge there at least as we see it right now, is massive.

Priscilla Alvarez is OUTFRONT in Savannah.

Priscilla, how confident is the Harris team about these numbers? I mean, you know, Fox poll is one poll. They clearly had seen that before in their internal numbers.

How confident are they in their ability to run up the numbers in Georgia?

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Erin, the officials I've spoken with are cautiously optimistic about their strategy in Georgia, but they also acknowledged that it's going to be a very close race. That's why their strategy really boils down to losing by less in those Republican leaning rural counties. And that's where they're trying to employ an aggressive strategy, kicking off with this bus tour with the vice president and her vice presidential nominee, Tim Walz, today.

Now, the person that is helping lead this, deputy campaign manager, Quentin Fulks, it's a playbook he's familiar with. Of course, he led Senator Raphael Warnock's December 2022 runoff. And during that period of time, they found success in shaving off votes from Republicans in these rural counties while winning big in Metro Atlanta.

So when I spoke to the deputy campaign manager, he told me, look, this is a strategy that we think we can pull off, again, this presidential -- this presidential year because they're anticipating higher voter turnout. Remember, he was working with a runoff and he thinks at the campaign being aggressive with offices in the area, as well as with his visit from the vice president can really help boost their chances. Now, Democratic strategists that I've spoken with in the state also

say, don't count out Tim Walz. Remember, he has a rural upbringing, he also has roots with football and is military background, and they think that that could really help the ticket in these rural counties that he could resonate with voters. So this stop is also an opportunity for them to test out how he fares with these folks.

And, of course, the vice president's going to conclude this with a rally tomorrow. And, of course, that sit down interview with our Dana Bash. So her time here is certainly not over yet.

BURNETT: No, and every single second of it focused on one thing.

All right. Priscilla, thank you very much.

Everyone here with me now.

Astead, you've covered Kamala Harris obviously extensively for "The New York Times", and now we've got these numbers. Two dozen field offices in Georgia for Harris, double that of Trump, a Fox poll that comes out tonight.

Okay, it's one poll. But I'm just going to go out in a limb here and say the internal polling clearly showed that.

ASTEAD HERNDON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yeah.

BURNETT: Because she didn't go and spend this time first-time with her VP and do all this just for song and dance.

HERNDON: Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think it is indicative of a shift that we've seen coming over the last month or so, what Harris has done is really consolidate the portions is of the Democratic base that Biden was not doing well with.

The reason she was doing better in the Sun Belt states as the Fox News poll shows is that she's doing better with younger voters. She has consolidated Black voters. She's done better with Latino voters, homes of the Democratic Party that frankly Joe Biden was just leaving on the floor because the old folks have problems with his candidacy. Now, that she has brought those back into the fold, there is a much wider math for her when we look at the Electoral College, and that actually puts pressure on folks like Trump to defend places like Georgia.

And let's remember, this is an opportunity partially because Donald Trump has created rifts within his own party there. You know, you mentioned the kind of attacks that Brian Kemp, but what they did in 2020, which, of course, Quentin Fulks is very familiar with in the Harris campaign, is they capitalize off a weak Senate candidates that the Republicans had. Kelly Loeffler, Herschel Walker, and allow people like Raphael Warnock to do better in the Metro Atlanta areas while also consolidating those losses in rural areas.

You can't just win through voter motivation in Georgia. You need motivation and persuasion there. And that's an opportunity to Republicans have gifted them by frankly, nominating someone who's been at odds with a lot of the conservative movement there.

BURNETT: I mean, Bryan, you know, I played what Trump has said about Kemp and I said Kemp is a gracious guy. He's going to go headline this fundraiser.

But I believe you probably were in the camp of when Trump most recently said all those nasty things about Kemp sort of what are you doing? I mean, is it possible that those chickens are coming home to roost? I mean, Trump can't afford to lose Georgia.

BRYAN LANZA, FORMER DEPUTY COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, TRUMP 2016 CAMPAIGN: Well, first of all, thank you for having me, Erin.

And listen, I think President Trump, you know, whether it's called making up with Kemp, sort of focusing on what matters, which is going to be the issues that Kemp is focused on ultimately, the issues that Trump -- President Trump was focused on, which is going to be inflation, immigration and a three wars abroad.

Now, sometimes, President Trump likes to go off message and he makes all of a stress out a little bit. And but ultimately we know this, we know the issues that the voters care about are not about the beef between President Trump and Brian Kemp.

[19:10:07]

But they're about the inflations. They're about immigration. So as we continue to have these conversations, we're going to see a lot of more of these distractions. I assume we're going to see the media blow it up and try to -- try to create a big issue out of this. But we know this definitively, what voters care about are immigration, inflation, and the wars that are -- that are abroad. And that's -- and that's the issue that they're going to pay attention to, these discussions are going to be.

BURNETT: Well, we'll if it is. I will say, I heard it from you. I heard from congressman last night, you know, the sort of -- well, the media -- the media, if they were honest, would say people are focused on the issues. Maybe they are, maybe they're not.

But what were seeing in these polls is now at this point incredibly consistent.

And, Max, I just want to give you a chance to respond to it. Do you think is a Fox News poll, Trump's already put out a press release saying it's a bunch of bunk. And the Fox News polling stinks and, you know, okay.

And we don't know, and we'll see, right? All we have is now what's an incredibly consistent body of polling? Do you think that it's real? And when you look at the actual sites that she's setting up in the state -- I mean, she is betting, right. That she is going to narrow the margin in areas that Trumps going to win big.

MAX ROSE (D), FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE: Right.

BURNETT: You don't go for a strategy like that, if you're nickel and diming, right? I mean, you go for that when you're going big.

ROSE: Sure. Of course. No, now, look, Trump hates Fox News. Who would, who would have thought?

It's clear as day that this will be a contested state and that the Trump campaign is going to actually have to spend big there. That in and of itself is a gigantic win for the Harris campaign because that's -- this is a zero-sum game, right? That's money that is not going to be able to be spent in Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin.

But the dichotomy is not just that of a contested state, we look at what both candidates are doing right now. The vice president is campaigning in rural Georgia, reaching out to new voters, talking to them about an agenda of economic opportunity. Donald Trump is attempting illegally, may I add, to use Arlington cemetery as a political commercial, desecrating the -- dishonoring our fallen, nothing worse than that.

That juxtaposition of what these two have done over the last couple of days tells you everything that you're talking about.

BURNETT: We're going to talk a lot more about that later on in the show. So we just put a pin in the Arlington cemetery because it's important. I do want to talk about it.

Brian, though, are you worried that Trump is going to be put in a position where he has to spend a lot of money in time defending a state like Georgia, right? As opposed to -- that's a state that he has to win, right, as opposed to other paths to get him over the victory line.

LANZA: Listen, we always knew that President Trump was going to spend money in Georgia. I mean, Joe Biden won Georgia last time, you have two Republicans, two Democratic senators who are there.

BURNETT: Yeah.

LANZA: So the fact that were spending money in Georgia should be a shock to nobody. And if it's a shock to somebody, they've clearly had their head in the sand for the last four years.

But at the end of the day, they can do this rural tour, they can do the city tour. The bottom line is, is the volume of -- the values, the San Francisco values of Kamala Harris do not match up with rural Georgia, whether it's sanctuary cities, whether it's -- whether it's the Second Amendment or if it was the fact that the working class and the middle class been decimated by the Harris-Biden inflation policies.

They can spend as much time as they want there. It's a heavy song to sell.

BURNETT: Okay. I will, Astead, just to make the point again, the poll before this poll had Trump ahead by seven points. This was not close. This wasn't put your head in the sand if you think it's up for grabs. It wasn't up for grabs. HERNDON: Yeah. I mean, this should be an alarming fact for the Trump

campaign and they think the trend line has been so consistent. If they are not alarmed, there's probably something wrong there because Donald Trump has campaigned the last month has been flailing, has not found a consistent attack against Harris, has not found a way to break through a news cycle and they spent this time bringing RFK Jr. and Tulsi Gabbard, people who don't expand his tent to the voters he's bleeding by this moment.

I mean, when you look at the Fox News poll closely, it shows us consistent story about Donald Trump. He has not grown his vote share. What is happening here is that Democrats have beech higher upside and are now capitalizing that because they have a candidate who can do such.

The other thing that's important here is that this is the impact of small-dollar donations that Kamala Harris has had over the last month or so.

BURNETT: Well, it's added up to $400 million.

HERNDON: Exactly. There is not -- you know, to the point about zero sum, for her, you can do both/and, because they have enough money to invest in a place like Georgia, while also protecting the places they need to win. It's Donald Trump now that is under both the political and financial pressure, again, most of which is of his own making, to be able to not have the ground game that he should at this.

BURNETT: I mean, she literally has money in the proverbial sense to throw away. I mean, the amount of money that the Democrats have raised -- I mean, it's incredible. I mean, you can put -- they don't have to be making a decision, do we do this or this? As Astead said, both and.

ROSE: Look, and ultimately, there's so much earned media going on in a presidential election that while the money is extraordinarily important as we've seen in presidential elections before, it's necessary, but, but not sufficient.

[19:15:02]

But I do think it's important to point to the dramatic change in these polling numbers. It's not just that it's 50/48. It's ten-point gain in a matter of two or three weeks. If that momentum continues, and we have every reason to believe that it will, it's not just going to be Georgia that the Trump campaign is concerned about. It's going to be four or five other states.

BURNETT: Right. All right. Well, all, thank you very much. I appreciate it, Max, Astead, and Brian.

And as I mentioned, she is using every moment that she is in Georgia and these two days with the VP, including her sit down with Dana Bash in the CNN exclusive first interview that will be with Vice President Harris and Governor Walz, sitting down with Dana tomorrow. They will be talking in the afternoon and we're going to get it on as soon as we can and you'll see it all in full at 9:00 Eastern. And OUTFRONT next, it is not just Georgia, a top political forecaster now saying North Carolina is in play for Kamala Harris. So what is behind this shift? What does it mean for the possible paths to 270?

And tonight, J.D. Vance slamming Harris for her role in the deadly Afghanistan withdrawal.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. J.D. VANCE (R-OH), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Kamala Harris is disgraceful. She can go to hell.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: Vance also defending his boss over a controversial photo op at the Arlington National Cemetery that Max just brought up.

We'll have more on that and also an OUTFRONT investigation this hour: photos of social media influencers are being stolen and then they're creating pro-Trump social media accounts. Many of them from young women.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:20:57]

BURNETT: All right. Tonight, a dead heat in North Carolina. That is the latest analysis from the Cook Political Report which has had an incredible record over the years. They are just moving this state from lean Republican to toss up.

Now, Trump won North Carolina by over a percentage point, and Joe Biden, when he was at the top of the ticket, was struggling there significantly. Democrats have given up on it.

Harris is also gaining ground, according to Cook's latest analysis in Minnesota and New Hampshire they were lean Democrat, but Cook has now moved them into now likely.

Amy Walter of the Cook Political Report is OUTFRONT.

And, Amy, it's great to see you. Can we just start with North Carolina? Obviously, this is another one that Team Biden was not playing in for all intents and purposes. And now, you're shifting it to toss up?

AMY WALTER, PUBLISHER & EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, COOK POLITICAL REPORT: Yeah. Well, you can see it in the data just in the little over a month since Harris has been in the race, the polling has shifted seven points in her favor. So this is taking it from a race where Biden was down by seven to raise that as you said, is now tied.

And it's not just the polling. Look at the travel and the spending by the campaigns. If you look at where Donald Trump has gone, basically in the last month, six weeks, he's been in North Carolina as often as he's been in Pennsylvania. And the spending in terms of the ad buying that is going on in that that state is ratcheting up from both Democratic and Republican avenues.

So this race is definitely in play. It's still a more challenging state than some of those others that are in the Electoral College. Namely, because it is a more rural states small town, rural state than say a Georgia or an Arizona and Nevada.

BURNETT: Right. When you're looking at other swing states.

Okay. So lets talk about others that --

WALTER: Right.

BURNETT: -- these were traditionally people think of them as Democratic but not always in certainly in the race, at least coming into this, maybe leaning that way, but it was you aren't totally sure which way it would go and talk about New Hampshire and Minnesota. Of course, Tim Walz is governor of Minnesota. So you've now seen a shift there that's pretty marked.

WALTER: Yeah. I mean, New Hampshire and Minnesota. I don't think people really remember this, but they were incredibly close in 2016, even though Hillary Clinton won both of them.

What was happening before Biden dropped out in that July -- late July period was the Democratic enthusiasm was just in the basem*nt and the real fear was that -- among Democrats was that voters just, their voters, weren't going to turn out at all. And that puts states that should be reliably Democratic in play.

It's not necessarily that Trump would win them, but it meant that his path to 270 was incredibly wide, right?

BURNETT: Right, narrowing. And also, I guess it makes it more sure you have what you have. So when you look at -- the path to -- Harris's path to 270, does this now open up for you even more ways to get there?

WALTER: Yeah. I mean, now she has an opportunity if she can win North Carolina, she can afford to lose some of those other states in the so- called Sun Belt. In fact, if she just went North Carolina, she doesn't need to win any of the Georgia, Nevada, Arizona. She wins North Carolina the blue, the so-called blue wall, and that Upper Midwest. That's enough to get her to 270.

But as I said, you know, it's still -- all of these races and I think this is going to be the issue for the next 68-plus days here is that every single state is within the margin of error. So all you need to see -- just the slightest movement, you know, from who's turning out, where swing voters are moving. That's going to determine the Electoral College victory.

Nobody should feel confident, neither campaign should feel confident that is about their standing in any of these dates just because it's just so, so narrow.

[19:25:02] BURNETT: All right. We'll continue to see how things move even over these next days. But as you say, who's counting and, you know, 60-plus days.

All right. Amy, thank you.

WALTER: Only sixty-eight days, you know? Yeah.

BURNETT: All right. Well, next sounding the alarm, a former Trump White House official says that Trump wants to use proxy Project 2025 to turn the U.S. government into a Russian style oligarchy. Trump denies the Project 2025 link. This former official is going to tell us why he believes this.

And Pulitzer Prize winning presidential historian Doris Kearns Goodwin joining us tonight, and this important moment of this campaign we need to talk about why we now, at this moment should learn from Lincoln and LBJ.

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[19:30:06]

BURNETT: Tonight, J.D. Vance tells Kamala Harris to, and I quote him, go to hell. That was his response today and his exact words when asked about a reported physical altercation between Trump's team and an official at one of the most sacred places in the U.S., Arlington National Cemetery.

NPR is reporting that this happened when Trump's team tried to film in the burial site known as Section 60, where service members from the most recent conflicts are laid to rest.

Vance defended the filming, saying that Trump was there to support the families of the 13 U.S. service members killed in the Kabul airport bombing as Biden pulled troops out of Afghanistan.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VANCE: Kamala Harris is disgraceful. We're going to talk about a story out of those 13 brave innocent Americans who lost their lives. It's that Kamala Harris is so asleep at the wheel that she won't even do an investigation into what happened. And she wants to yell at Donald Trump because he showed up. She can -- she can go to hell.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: Phil Mattingly is OUTFRONT.

And, Phil, what more are you learning about this incident? What happened? What the purpose of the filming was? And what do you know?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CHIEF DOMESTIC CORRESPONDENT: Erin, what you heard from Senator Vance there echoes the very sharp pushback we've seen from Trump officials over the course of the last several days and an event or at least an incident that nobody actually saw outside of the people involved in it.

And here's why the former president was invited by family members of some of those killed, some of the 13 U.S. service members that were killed at Abbey Gate is the three-year anniversary of that. He had to real stops during this visit. You're looking at one of them right now, laying to wreath at the Tomb of the Unknown soldier.

That is an area where photographers, the press pool was actually there could see it, could photograph, could film as you're seeing on the screen right now.

After that, Trump had a private meeting with some of the family members of those service members, and then went to Section 60 where veterans of recent conflicts are buried with some of those families. It is there where it was made clear to the Trump team that there is not -- the idea of photography or any type of video was not allowed. In fact, it's against federal law to do any election-related activities at a military burial ground. That is apparently where the dispute actually occurred.

Now, the Trump team has pushed back very hard saying there was no physical altercation and the former president put out a statement from some of those family members, said, quote, we had given our approval for President Trump's official videographer and photographer to attend the event, ensuring these sacred moments of remembrance were respectfully captured. And so we can cherish these memories forever.

Now, that doesn't mean that they supersede the federal law that exists, which is at the heart of this dispute. Chris LaCivita, the co- chair of the -- or co-campaign manager of the Trump campaign, put out a much sharper statement saying for a despicable individual to physically prevent President Trump's team from accompanying him to this solemn event is a disgrace and does not deserve to represent the hallowed grounds of Arlington National Cemetery.

The cemetery officials themselves have not gone beyond the initial statements saying the only there was an incident and a report was filed. They're not trying to identify the individual or go much further than that. Clearly, they don't want this to become a big thing. It is starting to become a big thing, particularly on the campaign trail, Erin.

BURNETT: Yeah, and interesting if Chris LaCivita is talking about someone trying to physically prevent -- I mean, it does appear that we some sort of physical altercation at least that means that implication.

All right. Phil, thank you very much.

And I want to go now to Anthony Scaramucci, former Trump White House communications director who now supports Kamala Harris for president.

So, Anthony, I want to ask you about quite a few things here, but first, this incident at Arlington National Cemetery.

Trump posed four photos during his visit, like the one I'm showing here. Thumbs were up. He was smiling there with families. He also posted a TikTok promoting that he was there.

So when you heard that his team got into an altercation with a cemetery official as they tried to film the visit. You see Chris LaCivita talks about that there was physical prevention. What was your reaction?

ANTHONY SCARAMUCCI, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, ENDORSED HARRIS: Well, I want to be careful because there are men and women there that are mourning our veterans on that sacred ground. And so what's at issue is, were they used by the president? And so the short answer is they'll say no because they invited him but he stretched the bounds of normalcy once again by bringing a film crew to those sacred grounds. And there's no excuse for that. And it's evident that there were people there that respect the solemn nature of Arlington National Cemetery that were trying to stop them.

So it's once again Trump going outside the norms that were used to in the United States. He likes breaking those things. He likes being unethical, he likes being amoral. These are the things he's doing.

He gets a lot of justification to do this by the right-wing press. But its very, very sad and I think those poll numbers that you were mentioning earlier in the show related to Georgia and other states aides I think people are actually tired of this.

[19:35:03]

He's the old man in the race now, at age 78. He's older. He's slower. Any smaller in terms of the way he thinks about things. And I think the momentum is with Vice President Harris.

BURNETT: So we have heard, Anthony, because you know him and spend time with him and obviously at one point you were real believer in his view, right? Obviously, that's changed, but at one point, I'm just saying even have a different perspective. We've heard in Trump's own words how he talks about veterans. I mean, just a few days ago when he claimed the presidential medal of freedom, which was awarded to civilians, is better than the medal of honor given by Congress to people who have suffered great losses in war. Here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT & 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's actually much better because everyone gets the congressional medal of honor, that's soldiers. They're either in very bad shape because they've been hit so many times by bullets, or they're dead.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: You know, with the RNC though, Anthony, to your point about the families with him at the cemetery, we saw gold star families call them compassionate. One said he spent six hours talking with her at Bedminster.

So, in the context of you knowing him for a long time, what do you think he really feels about veterans? SCARAMUCCI: Well, I think it's true to his nature. He has an ambivalence. I do believe what General Kelly said that he called people that were volunteering to defend our freedom suckers and losers. He absolutely did that. The right-wing says he didn't do it. Trump lies about saying in that.

But there's an ambivalence, there's always two sides to Mr. Trump. Remember, in Charlottesville, Virginia, in August of 2017, very fine people on both sides. And then of course, he denounced the rally. So he gives enough evidence to his supporters to continue to gaslight them. So he's ambivalent. He's certainly there to support those people who are mourning.

At the flip side is down deep as evidenced by that speech. He actually thinks that they're suckers and losers.

BURNETT: So I want to ask you now about Project 2025, as I mentioned, and the major push by the Harris campaign to tie Trump to that. They've just released this ad.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AD NARRATOR: Donald Trump's back, and he's out for control.

TRUMP: I would have every right to go after them.

AD NARRATOR: Complete control. I will wield that power very aggressively, and he has a plan to get it.

TRUMP: Detailed plans for exactly what our movement will do.

AD NARRATOR: It's called Project 2025, a 922-page blueprint to make Donald Trump the most powerful president ever.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: You wrote a new op-ed, Anthony, arguing -- the headline was: Trump is planning to use Project 2025 to build a Russia style oligarchy in the United States.

Now, I just want to note, he denies connections to the group, even though many people who worked for it worked for him but he says that he does not support the things in Project 2025. "USA Today's" fact check says he does indeed say he doesn't support it.

So in that context that he sort of announced it, why are you confident? Where are you sure that this is a real risk that he would follow the blueprint?

SCARAMUCCI: This is exactly what he does. So his next move is he barely knows that people, even though he's been flying them around on his plane. He's got 85 former employees in the Trump administration working for it. And of course, his former OMB director was caught on tape last week say that Mr. Trump's denunciation of Project 2025 is a ruse. He's really still for it.

I mean, we got that on tape. So this is what he does. This is his M.O. But there's 920 pages there.

I would ask people to look at agenda 47 and look at the overlap between agenda 47 on his website and project 2025. Now, of course, is people will go and try to erase some of that stuff now. Let's just talk about a few things. He wants to eliminate 50,000 workers and have them pass a loyalty test and the government.

BURNETT: All right. Well, Anthony, thank you very much. I appreciate it. I hope people read your op-ed and go look at those things, and decide for themselves. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Great to see you.

SCARAMUCCI: Good to be here.

BURNETT: All right. And next, as Trump and Harris are about to face off on the debate stage, I'm going to ask presidential historian Doris Kearns Goodwin, how pivotal of a moment this is in this race: an influencer in Europe finding their photos on pro-Trump account they did not create.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: To be honest, what (EXPLETIVE DELETED) was my reaction.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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[19:43:54]

BURNETT: And tonight, Trump meeting his match. That's what Tim Walz is promising when Harris and Trump face off for the first time on the debate stage.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. TIM WALZ (D-MN), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Kamala Harris, she's ready to hold him accountable on the debate stage. Tell me you're not looking forward to that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: It comes as the Harris campaign claims both candidates have agreed to use unmuted mics at the debate. Trump though says otherwise.

OUTFRONT now, Doris Kearns Goodwin, the Pulitzer Prize-winning presidential historian and author now of her latest book, 'The Leadership Journey: How Four Kids Became President".

So, Doris, let's start with this debate. I mean, we weren't even sure that was going to be a debate. And, you know, whether there'll be another Biden-Trump debate. And now Harris and we still aren't sure, but it's been a momentous and turbulent time.

What do you hope happens in this debate? DORIS KEARNS GOODWIN, PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Wow, great question. I

mean, I hope that we see two people who can argue with each other civilly, is that it crazy hope? I hope that we understand what their temperaments are in what debates do. It's not so much who says something that becomes a zinger.

[19:45:01]

Not so much that somebody is funny, although I'd love to see some sense of humor in this debate, we haven't seen one.

Remember when Reagan was able to make fun of the idea that his age was a problem by saying I will not take the youth and experience of my opponent. It would be so nice to see some sense of humor.

But mostly what you want to see is who's stronger, who can command the issues better, who can explain things more simply? Who can treat the other one as an opponent with civility? Even if those mics unmuted, then we're going to see that I suspect.

BURNETT: I mean, it really incredible to imagine what we could see. But I mean, Doris, you know, I think about all the things you've written, the Pulitzer Prize, everything you've won, now here we are.

Biden has a debate that throws the entire election into chaos. Trump gets shot. There's an attempted assassination. Biden gets COVID, disappears for a couple days, drops out of the race, shocks everybody, endorses Harris against the wishes of the party powerbrokers and the donors, and she shocks the world with her meteoric rise.

And so now, you've got the first Black woman, the first Asian woman on the top of the ticket. This is all in what, eight weeks? History doesn't usually move this fast.

So, as a historian, does your head spin?

GOODWIN: Without a question. I mean, that's the only time that I've lived through the 1968 convention and election was similar to this. I mean, everybody thought Lyndon Johnson was the nominee, would be the candidate running against the Republican who turns out to be Richard Nixon once again. And they thought that there was no chance that anybody could undo him. He then decides to withdraw from the race on March 31st. And then it looks like its going to be a debate between Robert Kennedy and Eugene McCarthy.

Then Martin Luther King is killed. Robert Kennedy is killed. And then you get to that Democratic Convention and everybody for this year, would there be echoes of that with the protesters? Because the Democrats lost that election that day and that convention that did not happen this way.

So, history doesn't always come right together, but I lived through that time. It felt head spinning then, it feels head spinning now.

BURNETT: Does that time and the fact that this country got through it, do you feel hope that no matter how this goes that the country can get through this? Because, obviously, the message that you hear from both sides is if we don't win, it's the end. It's the end of democracy. It's the end of -- do you really believe that or do you think this country can rise above no matter what?

GOODWIN: Without a question, I do. This is why history is so important. That's why I love it so much.

If you remember what it was like, and I do because I live with these people over time to go well through those early days of the Civil War, go through the early days of the Great Depression, the early days of World War II, when it looked like Hitler was conquering all of Western Europe and somehow we emerge stronger at the result of those turmoils.

I think we can do it again. That's why we need history. We need perspective, we need their lessons, we need their hope. That's one of the reasons I've written this book for young people because I want them to love history like do.

BURNETT: I -- so I want to talk about this because, you know, having conversations with some of my children's friends and I've been so curious about how they feel about being president. Is that still an aspiration that young children have? And some do, but then some are sort of like, well, who would want that?

And that sort of makes me --my jaw dropped like, wow, that should be it -- it shocks me they feel this way.

So you write this book for younger kids on Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, FDR, LBJ, when they were kids. And you talk about when they came into office in these incredible times of uncertainty in turmoil, as you write and you write the address younger audience, Doris, you write, what I hope you'll ask yourself after reading this book is what do we want from our leaders today?

What do we deserve? What will we no longer tolerate? What does progress look like, and how can we help get there? Most important, what is our role individually and collectively?

Why was it so important for you to write for them, for those kids?

GOODWIN: Well, first of all, I just want them to love history like I do. I mean, I've loved it from the time I was 6-years-old and my father taught me that mysterious art of keeping score while listening to the best baseball games. So I could record for him the history of that Brooklyn Dodger game. I've loved it ever since.

I had a great teacher in high school, who, when she talked about Lincoln dying, she actually cried. I think she must have known him if she did that.

And I want them to love history. History is diminishing and courses in high school now, and it makes me really sad. So I think the way to get them interested in history is through biography. That's how I became interested. When you read about a person and his stories, not just facts and figures, you remember them. So I start when they're young when there, before they're like when

they before they become icons before their monuments, before their faces are on the currency when they're going to make mistakes, when they have an uncertain path, when they find there vocation. And all four of these people found politics to be an honorable vocation, all four of them went through terrific adversities in their lives, but they became stronger themselves. And I want them to see that.

That's the only way they can model something to go through the toughest times and see us come through them and find what are the qualities that leaders need? Who, how can I become one of them? I want them to want to be president someday.

BURNETT: What are a couple of qualities?

GOODWIN: I think the most important ones or empathy as one. Lincoln had it as a kid, somehow there was a time when people were making fun and bullying a stutter in his mitts and Lincoln was strong and tall and he was just tell them stop doing that. You can't do that.

Another time when a bird had lost its nest and he carried it back to the nest. He spent hours finding the nest and his friends said, what are you doing? This is a waste of time. We should be playing. He had empathy.

[19:50:01]

Another thing is perseverance. Teddy Roosevelt had terrible asthma when he was a child. And he pursued himself through it. He became stronger, he worked out so his chest could be bigger.

Polio hit FDR, and he had resilience. LBJ loved being with people from the time he was young and he listened to them, and that became his power of persuasion

So these are the qualities, humility and empathy, accountability, and the most important thing is at a certain point, you acknowledged that you can have loss and you can do it with grace. You acknowledged that when you have victory, you do it with grace, and you have an ambition that grows for something bigger than yourself for the team, for the state, for the country, for the whole world.

BURNETT: Yes. Well, Doris, thank you very much. I hope that, you know, obviously sitting here and being with you, it gives me a sense of optimism. I hope that it comes through all the TV for anyone watching.

Thanks so much. Great to see you.

GOODWIN: Thank you. Thank you, too.

BURNETT: Doris Kearns Goodwin.

And next, an OUTFRONT investigation, who is behind the dozens of pro- Trump social media accounts that are now using stolen photos of young women? (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:55:39]

BURNETT: Tonight, stolen images used in pro-Trump accounts. Who's behind them?

Katie Polglase has this OUTFRONT investigation.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KATIE POLGLASE, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Debbie is heading home from work in Luxembourg, Northern Europe, crossing the border into Germany, she races back to her son. And, of course, Lou.

But Debbie's day doesn't end there. She's also a professional model. Her image not only her identity, but her source of income, helping support her and her son.

But it's been stolen, used in a pro-Trump account on X, attracting nearly 30,000 followers in less than six months.

Here is Luna.

DEBBIE NEDERLOF, MODEL & SOCIAL MEDIA MANAGER: Yes. That's very crazy.

POLGLASE: And when you see these views, you know, it's saying, vote for Trump in 2024, what's your reaction?

NEDERLOF: My -- to be honest, what the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) was my reaction. That was my reaction because I have nothing to do with the United States with Trump -- the political things over there.

POLGLASE: And if people following this account believe that this is you, what do you want to say to them?

NEDERLOF: That it's definitely not me. Definitely. It was never me and it will never be me. And they have to un-follow, please.

POLGLASE: In fact, Debbie is not alone. In partnership with the Centre for Information Resilience, CNN found nearly 60 fake Trump supporting accounts.

And from these, we identified nearly a dozen women, real women, from across Europe, from Denmark to the Netherlands, and as far away as Russia, whose identities are being used in accounts telling voters, American voters, to vote for Trump in the upcoming U.S. election.

POLGLASE: Let's take a look at some of these accounts, like Alina (ph), 33, and voting for Trump. But she's not. She's really Kamilla from Denmark.

KAMILLA BROBERG, INSTAGRAM INFLUENCER: I think it's weird. Anything that can discriminate other people on my account, because it's my little universe. I don't think it's fair. POLGLASE: And this one, Eva. She even has a verified blue tick, which is supposed to weed out fake accounts.

NERIAH TELLERUP, INSTAGRAM INFLUENCER: You feel very taken advantage of, also because it's kind of my image. I don't want to think people think that I do what those profiles sometimes are promoting.

POLGLASE: We ran the suspicious X photos through a reverse image search engine and found they were lifted from Instagram posts.

Certain patterns emerged. The fake accounts repost each other. It's a sign of a coordinated campaign.

Here, several of the fake accounts post the exact same wording. If you're voting for the man who survived an assassination attempt, I want to follow you. It's another sign the accounts are linked.

And that's not all. Some of the accounts manipulated the images of these women. Have a look at Debbie's post, the original on Instagram, and now the fake one on X. Her hat now reads, Make America Great Again.

Look at this t-shirt before, and then Trump 2024.

For now, we don't know who is behind all these accounts. But the former U.S. National Security Council spokeswoman who also used to investigate fake accounts for Twitter told us this.

EMILY HORNE, FORMER GLOBAL HEAD OF POLICY, TWITTER: I don't think it's unreasonable to ask questions about could there be a state actor involved.

We know that there are multiple state actors who have been using social media to try to sow disinformation campaigns in the run up to the 2024 election.

POLGLASE: But regardless, the accounts are reaching influential politicians.

Doug Mastriano, a Republican state senator for Pennsylvania, follows Debbie's fake account.

CNN contacted the senator about the account, but has not heard back.

Back in Germany, Debbie is shocked and upset that her image is being used in this way.

With President Trump now back on X and Elon Musk, the owner of X, throwing his weight behind him, fake pro-Trump content appears to be flourishing.

Silencing the real women affected.

Once again, women's rights at the very heart of this presidential election.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

POLGLASE (on camera): Well, we did reach out to X regarding these accounts, but we are yet to receive a response. We did notice that just in the last 24 hours before publishing, the majority of these accounts have been taken down, and it is worth noting that at this stage, there is no indication that the Trump campaign are involved -- Erin.

BURNETT: Fascinating though, and incredible as you were, they knew about it, and you would reached out that those accounts suddenly disappeared. Incredible reporting. Katie, thank you so much.

And thanks to all of you for joining us.

Anderson starts now.